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File: The Jouyou Kanji.jpg (607.9 KB, 1200x1553) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

 No.25978

Tell me about it サマ, are you a native/have learned/are learning/tried learning/planning to learn the language? Or maybe it isn't your cup of tea?

 No.25979

everything worth reading gets translated anyway lol

 No.25984

dekinai.jpg
I can read Japanese, just slowly. Can't speak it for shit though, and I can only listen if the speaker is speaking super clearly and without any weird accents.

 No.26000

>>25979
but what if it doesn't?

 No.26003

でけへん

 No.27096

>>25978
By no means am I an expert or fluent, but I'm good enough to read stuff and watch most anime without too much trouble. 100% worth it. You don't realize how bad some translations really are. Also >>25979 isn't true obviously.

 No.27099

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>>25984
>>27096
Really proud of you, any progress at all is still progress so keep up the good work.
As for me I don't know where I am, might take the JCAT soon so it crushes any ego I could have, which by the way will stop being free in 2020 for anyone interested.

 No.27100

I tried about a year ago but learning makes me hate myself so I fell off. Thinking about picking it back up again but it's been long enough that I'd be starting from square one again.

 No.27102

>>27099
Charging for placement tests is super gay to be honest

 No.27103

>>27100
Not necessarily. I don't how far you got, but assuming you learned the kana and maybe some other basic stuff like that; it doesn't take long to pick them back up again. As long as you actually use it, it'll get ingrained in your memory again.

 No.27173

File: 74152396_p0.jpg (222.28 KB, 698x900) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

I restructured my japanese studies in october. I was doing a core 10k anki deck with my only grammar knowledge being what I got from anime. Not only that, at one point I was in a hurry to get through the deck and attempted 100 new cards every day, making me spend a big portion of my studies (perhaps 2 or 3 months) not reviewing as many cards as I should have because the deck had a hard limit of 100 reviews a day that I didn't even know existed. I had to do insane amounts of reviews once I disabled it. Worse still, rather than the cards being japanese vocabulary that I had to translate to english, they were english vocabulary that I had to translate to japanese (without any hints about nuance/context, meaning lots of false duplicates). Then I finally decided to add a grammar deck, which only added to the load.

I managed to keep up with the grammar deck, specially because I decided to be cautious enough to try and never go beyond 70 cards (reviews+new) every day. But the core 10k deck kept piling on reviews until I began pretending it didn't exist. So I made a backup, then deleted it from anki. In its place, I added the kanji damage deck to freshen up my memory, having found out there's more kanji I haven't properly memorized than I thought (missing on- or kunyomi). I could have finished both decks at least in november but, as I said, I'm being overly cautious to avoid mismanaging another year or two of studying.

I've learned a lot of grammar constructions I don't think I would have learned by osmosis and it has improved my reading and listening skills. I still have 200 cards left to learn (considering it's 3 cards for construction, that's about 67), which is 10 days if I learned 20 cards a day, but I've been only doing reviews with 5 or 10 new cards on occasion, so it's going slower. Same for the kanji deck. I did about a thousand of those in the first month (considering I knew about 70% of them it wasn't as intensive as it seems) and have been doing it slow ever since.

I haven't made any progress in kanji writing since May due to lack of time and motivation. I rarely make new year's resolutions but when I do I stick with them to the end. I had pretty big goals this year (to not say unrealistic) and most of the less important resolutions never even got any work put in them. As things stand, I am dead set on stopping my japanese studies around sometime june next year if I perceive to be making no more progress. A man has got to know his limitations.

 No.27183

>>27173
It honestly sounds to me that you ended up burning yourself out

 No.27185

>>27173
>I was doing a core 10k anki deck
I already found your mistake. The core decks suck, but that one extra sucks. I did 2k core way back when and I wish I didn't since it was a waste of time. Make your own deck by mining words from material you read/watch.

 No.27187

>>27183
It's not so much a matter of burning myself out and more of having done things the worst possible way, being unaware of certain anki features, as well as being too stubborn to change my methods for far too long. I began the core 10k deck in 2017 and was a good deal through it. However, the way it was structured simply wasn't the best suited towards fluency. Had I known it was possible, I would have switched the answers from the beginning, instead of seeing the english word "revise" and try to remember all 3 of the japanese jukugo I had seen so far that could mean that. And what do you do if there's a fourth that you forgot, but feel like you'd recognize if you saw it in a text? Do you count it as memorized, or are you harsh enough with yourself you'll add it back to the pile? Add that to the fact I spent five months working full time to mess up my reviewing schedule even further. Who has time for 200+ reviews a day when 10 hours of it are geared towards working and commuting? Who has motivation for that when you come home beat every day? And don't forget, if you skip a day, those 200+ reviews will simply be added on top of the 300+ reviews you'll have the next day. I'm not full-timing anymore but I'm still working as well as back in college, so I won't risk going on huge learning sprees again, even if I now have a tablet I can use (and have been using) for this stuff during my commute and lunch breaks.

 No.27188

>>27185
I don't know how to do this and it sounds complicated and even more time-consuming.

 No.27190

>>27103
I learned all the kana pretty well and started on kanji but I've forgotten some of the hiragana, and most of the katakana. Kanji I only remember like two of. I think my biggest "accomplishment" was reading a single page of Non Non Biyori over the course of like an hour.

I just downloaded anki again and I'm gonna see how quickly I can pick the kana back up. But I'd be lying if I said I was confident I'm in a good enough mental state to really learn anything. I know everything starts with baby steps but I feel like a retard just seeing that everyone in this thread is light-years ahead of me. Plus I already fucked it up once before. Of course I know there's nothing stopping me from making real progress if I stick to it aside from my own dumb thoughts. This is something I know I really want to be able to do someday and I'm kind of afraid to try again because of what failure would imply about me.

That said I'm gonna try to post updates in this thread and maybe that will help keep me realistic about the gains I am making rather than scolding myself about the steps I've yet to take.

 No.27191

>>27188
You just need to configure anki and a browser extension and then you can add words to your anki deck by just hovering over it in your browser and clicking. Assuming you're on a semi-modern browser, just use Yomichan. See the webpage to set it up.
https://foosoft.net/projects/yomichan/

The reason why I stress mining > premade is because it forces you to actually consume native content. Anki is a merely a tool for memorization, but it won't teach you the language. The way you learn is by struggling and trying over and over again until it clicks. Human brains are weird like this; you just naturally pick up language after a while. Anki is good because it lets you pretty easily memorize words/kanji + their meaning but for actual learning, you need to pick up that manga or whatever you want to read.

 No.27192

>>27190
>everyone in this thread is light-years ahead of me
Nah, don't let other anons bother you. Everyone likes to brag and inflate how good they are on the internet (myself included). I get super embarrassed if I make a dumb mistake even if no one calls me out on it.

Anyways, don't get discouraged. Find a method that works for you and stick to it. Language learning is more about regularly putting time in than being super intelligent, or any fancy trick or anything like that. Remember, even literal mental retards can learn a language. Age doesn't matter either (other than like dementia obviously). There is no definitive evidence that babies/young kids can learn languages faster than an adult. Some people even think its the opposite.

 No.27193

File: Slow and steady wins the ….webm (2.8 MB, 700x392) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

>>27187
It's okay fren, just focus on the important stuff first, you can do the japanese stuff in whatever free time you manage to make for yourself if you're actually struggling with life

If you want an automated online anki you can also use renshuu.org which has a dictionary that pulls from the same sources that jisho uses and lets you search kanji via doodling or pasting like google so you can centralize your SRS activities there if you so desire, it also has the option to let you input your answers so you can be sure you actually learned stuff and aren't just pressing Easy without thinking

But I agree with sama there, 10k was overkill, better to learn the essentials (2k, N5 and N4 stuff, etc.) and move on to learning whatever you want vocab-wise, not only is it more fun, it actually sticks better, in fact you might ditch doing reps altogether later down the road

>>27190
non, non yuyu, like samanon there said it's not about speed or what others know or do, it's about what you learn yourself, in fact I'll just say fuck it right now and restart studying at max baby speed, better slow than never, so I'll also update here frequently.

>>27191
I remembered I have Yomi installed, just checked and it deleted my dictionaries! Is it because I updated foxy? or because I ran out of space? In any case it doesn't let me install them again because "lol no space" even though my disc has enough to keep them all. Weird stuff, will delete some stuff soon just in case.

 No.27194

>>27193
>I remembered I have Yomi installed, just checked and it deleted my dictionaries! Is it because I updated foxy? or because I ran out of space? In any case it doesn't let me install them again because "lol no space" even though my disc has enough to keep them all. Weird stuff, will delete some stuff soon just in case.
That's weird. Firefox updates and so on shouldn't delete dictionaries. Maybe you somehow accidentally changed firefox profiles.

 No.27201

>>27190
>I feel like a retard
Why does it matter how good anyone else is when you're working on a personal skill? It's unproductive and cyclical to think that way, there's going to be thousands or millions or billions of people better than you at anything you choose, and in this particular case there's selection bias because nobody is going to self-report in the thread when they know no Japanese.
Just work on it and stop giving a shit whether you're ahead or behind others, only think about whether you're ahead or behind where you want to be and work on it from there.

 No.27204

Today I reviewed kana and the few kanji I already knew. I learned 品. The hiragana came back pretty fast but the katakana is gonna take awhile.
>>27192
Thanks for the words of wisdom. It's easy for me to get into the mindset that learning a language is some mythical fictional thing that never really happens, which of course isn't true. I have no idea what works for me yet because I haven't put the time in but the only way to know is to try.
>>27193
>it's not about speed or what others know or do, it's about what you learn yourself
Yeah my biggest problem has always been focusing on other people or unfinished goals rather than on what I actually have done
>>27201
>Just work on it and stop giving a shit whether you're ahead or behind others, only think about whether you're ahead or behind where you want to be and work on it from there.
Intrusive thoughts are a bitch but that's the plan

 No.27212

I was gonna say "I'm going to make a post every day!" but quickly realized it would lead to me feeling bad if I missed one. That said, I'm going to TRY to make a post as often as I study, which SHOULD be every day. But who knows.

I really suck at Katakana. I know I should trust anki to give me reviews when I need them but I worry that even at one kanji per day I'm going to start forgetting them awfully fast.

Todays new kanji was 言: say.

Onyomi: げん
Kunyomi: い*う(言う)

 No.27224

>>27194
I'm using the default profile and I'm sure nothing is autopurging after I end session so there was something weird going on. In any case I could only upload one out of 4 I had because
>Yomichan is using approximately 187.8MB of 212.9MB

I assume it's because I have like 1.5GB left of disk space and it adjusts accordingly. Don't really know how to make the storage for this one even bigger so I'll wait until I delete more stuff to install the other ones.
Hopefully it doesn't delete them now.

 No.27225

>>27224
I think firefox has some kind of limit on how much space addons are allowed to take up so that's probably what the "of 212.9MB" part is coming from. If you really need to install more dictionaries, there's probably an about:config options you can dig up somewhere to free up some more space. For what it's worth, my max is apparently "686.8MB", but I'm on linux so I'm sure the defaults and everything are different.

 No.27231

How the heck is anybody supposed to learn this language when kanji like 下 have SIX pronunciations? How awful. And then certain compound words don't even care if you've memorized all six pronunciations because it's different there too.

Anyways 下 is the kanji I learned today, it means "below" or something and I've already forgotten how it's read.

 No.27232

>>27231
A suggestion. Don't worry too much about individual kanji. Instead focus on learning whole words. In this case, 下 is commonly used alone (した) so it's worthwhile learning. But in general you want to learn something like "猛々しい" and not just "猛".

Kanji pronunciations will come naturally with time. In general, you only need to know two pronunciations (kunyomi and onmyomi). There's always exceptions though.

 No.27233

>>27232
Right now I'm just doing kana learning until I can read it phonetically without thinking, and learning one kanji per day from http://www.kanjidamage.com/ because someone recommended it to me on here a while ago. I'm not sure if I should start with that core 2k deck or whatever yet seeing as I'm still struggling with certain katakana. I guess I shouldn't stress having trouble with individual kanji until I start learning actual words?

 No.27234

>>27233
Just telling you I'm also studying so don't feel like you're doing this alone, I've just been rather lazy to report these couple days, but haven't skipped a single one yet.

>>27225
Well, my dictionary was gone again so finally decided to check what was going on and after a while found out it isn't an isolated event by any stretch
https://github.com/FooSoft/yomichan/issues/100

So it's pretty much confirmed they disappear due to fox fuckery with IndexedDB eviction and low disk space, and it seems they're working on that problem right now, so either I move to the testing variant and risk bugs, try with enabling the persistent storage for the extension (don't even know if I did it properly), delete more stuff or wait for an updated stable variant. Bah, not like I used it much anyways (sour grapes anyone?)

 No.27235

>>27234
>From this API, it looks like Firefox just reports the storage as 0, and the quota is inaccurate as well.
Mozilla messing up things up? Who would have guessed?

>>27233
As a disclaimer, this is my opinion and there are people that will disagree. I think individual kanji study is mostly pointless (unless you want to physically handwrite stuff; then there's some utility to learning stroke order, etc.). The argument that pro-individual kanji study people will make is that it lets you more easily distinguish kanji from each other and gather meaning from radicals. My argument is that it doesn't matter and you'll get those things anyway if you study actual words. People speak and write in words not kanji. Kanji is just a tool. The 2k core is OK but there's not much point in trying to go further until you know kana super well. You don't need to be lightning fast, but you have to be able to read them (obviously).

 No.27236

>>27234
> I'm also studying so don't feel like you're doing this alone
I appreciate it. It helps to know I'm not alone even though you're surely better off than me.
>>27235
Duly noted. Maybe I'll switch to the core 2k deck instead of the "kanji-per-day" thing. I'm pretty confident with hiragana after a few days review but katakana is still a weak point. Not sure when it's a good idea to try reading manga with furigana again, keeping in mind my tendency to get discouraged if something is too daunting.

 No.27237

>>27236
>even though you're surely better off than me.
Shaddup already.

 No.27238

>>27237
gomen

 No.27281

Katakana is getting easier. Hiragana is still mostly no problem but I mess up a few pesky ones once in a while. I had my first real depressive day とだy but I still got all the anki reviews done.

Todays Kanji was 否: no

Onyomi:ひ
Kunyomi:いな

 No.27283

>>27281
>I had my first real depressive day とだy
How the hell did I mess up my post like THAT, lol.

 No.27284

>a whole thread about anki
you boys aren't making it any time soon unless you start learning something about language acquisition first.

 No.27287

>>27284
Sure, fair enough. I have no idea what I'm doing, for now I'm at least learning something so I don't really want to think about the long term. I'll try reading again soon but I want to be more confident before I try it.

 No.27294

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 No.27295

>>27284
I don't use Anki though

 No.27296

>>27281
allow me to give you some advice regarding katakana. regardless of which language, you first need to understand how reading really works. in your native language for example you don't actually read shit letter for letter like you currently do with japanese, you see the whole word, it's shape, and you instantly recognize it by its shape. instead of wasting time drilling individual kana into your head and making up ridiculous mnemonics you should just carry on reading and remember words, not meaningless boxes.

 No.27311

>>27296
I strongly agree and strongly disagree.

I strongly disagree because at the most basic levels of reading comprehension, people read letter by letter and then piece the word together in their minds. As they become further exposed to text, the "shape" you're talking about manifests itself. Were things to work as you describe, children would have no need to learn the alphabet, either the latin or the kana. They'd be spending years looking at "dog" "cat" "swing" "table" "car" "wheel" without ever talking about the letters that make up those words.

I strongly agree because I have experienced what you're talking about, specially with jukugo. There are some kanji whose meaning and readings I have forgotten and might not even recognize on their own, but show them to me paired with another kanji and I'll tell you right away what word that jukugo translates to.

>>27284
Anki or any other form of memorization is necessary before you go into reading books or listening to audio dramas.

>>27281
If this method works for you then keep at it but if you're misremembering tings too often I suggest it might have something to do with practicing hira, katakana and kanji at the same time.

 No.27336

I got home late and had zero motivation to study and was kinda drunk but I did it anyways. Motivations levels are low and upsetness levels are high. Kana is frustrating today and so is Kanji. Gotta remember to respond to >>27311 tomorrow.

I learned 十: ten

Onyomi: じゅう

Kunyomi: とう

 No.27360

Recalling kanji is a lot easier when not drunk. I'm getting into some weird character combinations with Katakana that are kind of a pain.

Todays kanji was 古: old

Onyomi: こ

Kunyomi: ふる*い(古い)

>>27296
I see what you're saying but at the same time, like >>27311
says, it can't hurt to be 100% on the phonetics, especially since my grammar is not at a point where most words mean anything to me. Even reading manga with Furigana I'd be looking up most words. I do understand what you're saying though because certain combinations of hiragana are already becoming a bit more familiar to my eyes, and I'm able to process them without sounding each one out. です, for the easiest example, but also simple things like ありがとう. I imagine more of what you're saying will come to me once I start doing vocab work.

>>27311
>Anki or any other form of memorization is necessary before you go into reading books or listening to audio dramas.
When should I start trying to read something? Would you (or anyone else) recommend jumping straight into something with furigana or is it better to grind out some basic vocabulary and grammar first? I suspect this will be a personal thing but I'd like some insight.
>If this method works for you then keep at it but if you're misremembering tings too often I suggest it might have something to do with practicing hira, katakana and kanji at the same time.
Remembering the Kun and On for each kanji is getting difficult but not impossible. If, when I start to do vocab or start reading simple stuff, it gets to be too stressful I'll put it on hold. But I'm hoping learning individual kanji and their readings will make learning jukugo and other vocab easier when the time comes to do so.

 No.27374

>>27360
>When should I start trying to read something? Would you (or anyone else) recommend jumping straight into something with furigana or is it better to grind out some basic vocabulary and grammar first?
There's no real hard and fast rule here. No matter when you start reading (unless you're a autist that memorizes 10,000 words first), you will be looking up a ton of shit in the dictionary. That's just how it is. For grammar, you just want a basic idea of how it works (i.e. know the particles and that kind of stuff), but the way to really learn grammar is just more reading.

tl;dr: After getting a slight, basic grasp of grammar (like reading through Tae Kim once), you can start reading whenever.

 No.27421

>>27360
I disagree with the anon up there about grammar. I actually went the "textbook/ordered" way and have seen way too much improvement compared to the "just read" approach I took before. If anything reading just gives me vocab and experience (speed basically), nothing more and for everything else I did it the stiff way and it worked for me. Now that I think about it I've gone about it pretty anti-DJT (learn to write, go by textbook, kanji kentei way of learning kanji, no Anki, etc) so I'll leave your path choice to you and what you feel works for you. That said I do agree with some DJT stuff, mainly:

-Don't wait to finish X thing to start Y, that is, you don't wait to learn all kanji to start learning grammar, or you don't want to learn 10k words before reading a single page of anything. Basically use everything you know at all times and try to push your way through with anything you want.

-Some basic vocab is necessary, but after that focus on what you find day by day or it will become boring, tedious and won't stick as good so if you must use SRS go with a mining deck without a doubt

-Don't get to comfortable, always try new stuff so you get to experience the language in multiple ways and learn a variety of things

-Consume lots and lots, the more compelling the better it is

And the most important thing of all, never give up, even if it takes 15 years to get where you want it's better than to have regrets and spend your life thinking of what could've been if you started 15 years earlier

 No.27430

>>27421
>kanji kentei way of learning kanji
Do you hate yourself?

 No.27437

>>27421
People learn in different ways. Generally the methods that you found most effective while learning your first language will be helpful while learning another. That said, not everyone was exposed to a variety of methods so it may be hard to know what is effective.

Personally I like the "just read" approach because that's how I learned English for the most part but I think if you're not going to put in some good effort at mastering grammar and conventions you should probably "fortify" your readings with newspapers and more serious technical/nonfiction literature. For me it helps that part of the reason I learn new languages in the first place is to read foreign news and things though. With well-published and widely-supported languages like Japanese you can get a fairly immersive experience nowadays even in your own country, courtesy of the world wide web.

>>27360
I can't claim to know how you learn but phonetic proficiency has always been a very good tool for me to aid in thinking in a new language and using it as much as possible in everyday life. It's very helpful to feel like I'm properly speaking in the language. With Japanese it's especially easy and intuitive because I already consume so much material with Japanese-language audio. There's honestly so many accessible resources for this language that I can't really relate to the people who talk about it like it's impossible to learn.

 No.27444

Not much to say today. I just barely got in the time to study very quickly so I'll have to do something extra tomorrow. Today's kanji is 叶う: Dream come true

Kunyomi: かな*う (叶う)
>>27374
I appreciate the insight. I think I'm gonna take it slow on the reading approach for now. I want to go into this whole thing keeping my weaknesses in mind (lack of motivation and defeatism), so waiting until I'm as comfortable as I can be can't hurt.
>>27421
Good advice. Obviously I'm leaning quite heavily on Anki right now but I'll keep in mind what you said about not getting too comfortable and not taking TOO long to get into doing vocab/grammar/reading. One thing I haven't done any of so far is writing and I'm wondering how much of a mistake that is. I don't really have an interest in being able to write but if it would aid me in learning the rest of the language I shouldn't ignore it too much.
>And the most important thing of all, never give up, even if it takes 15 years to get where you want it's better than to have regrets and spend your life thinking of what could've been if you started 15 years earlier
Thanks again, sentiments like this actually do a lot for my motivation, as does being able to post about my efforts.

 No.27495

Oops I forgot my post yesterday, but I remembered my studying so that's the important part.

 No.27504

Katakana is still frustrating me.
Todays kanji was 計: measure

Onyomi: けい

Kunyomi: けい
はか*る

 No.27546

File: You can learn japanese-今日も….jpg (468.67 KB, 1600x1200) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

Just another reminder to yuyu that I'm also studying but I'm even lazier to post updates, however the Mahoyo fren's screencaps boosted my motivation a little bit so everything's gonna be fine, I can feel it.

 No.27547

I'm getting increasingly frustrated with my katakana performance especially since I'm like 95% good with hiragana. I told myself I wouldn't read or do vocab until I was 100% on both phonetic scripts but I'm reconsidering that now…

The only thing Kanjidamage taught me today was a radical that I'm too lazy to type. Not super interesting.
>>27546
I'm envious of your motivation. Seeing posts like that usually has the opposite effect on me. But reading your posts spurs me onward!

 No.27549

I started vocab practice today as well after not being able to sleep and feeling like I wasn't making much progress doing what I was doing. Wish me luck.

 No.27563

More vocab today. I upped my new kanji per day to 2 as well. If that plus 20 new cards from the core2k deck is too much I'll tone it down a little. I still haven't studied any grammar because I'm afraid of it…
>>27546
What does this say anyways? "Tomorrow, as well as some day, do your best!"?

Also why is everything involving 日 so awful pronunciation wise, damn.

 No.27567

>>27563
Someone better at translating can probably make this sound better but basically "Do your best all day today as well!"

 No.27568

>>27567
Damn
Well nice to have confirmation that I'm still to dumb to try reading stuff lol

 No.27569

>>27563
Pretty much like sama says, you can play with the words for a nice translation but I'm sure you get the basic meaning, and there's a chance you might have heard the phrase before
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm6DVz-y_6E

In any case keep ganbaruing!

 No.27581

The fact that some of the first words this core2k teaches you are the days of the week is infuriating because I just can't seem to remember them. The other words are going fine so far and I'm starting to be able to reverse-engineer sense out of some of the example sentences (only once the meaning has been revealed of course). Only having been at it for two days though I can't say I've really learned anything yet, and I still struggle with bouts of severe motivation loss when I get stuck on something or realize how fucked up it's reading is. No issues doing 2 kanji a day separately yet. That stuff alone plus kana refreshers just in case is keeping me busy for 45 minutes to an hour per day. Anything to put off reading and grammar!

Todays kanji is: 日

Onyomi: にち、じつ, +whatever else it feels like I guess?

Kunyomi: ひ

 No.27582

dunno why'd you bother learning to read/write
it's much more important to learn to understand what people are say
you can do THAT just by turning off subs while watching anime

 No.27585

>>27582
I'm not interested in learning to write. I really don't think I'll ever get much out of the skill, especially when computers exist. However I want to be able to read the Japanese web, untranslated manga, doujinshi, and eventually VNs, and I also want to visit Japan someday. So learning to read is far from pointless. Also you learn to speak/understand intrinsically as you learn to read so it's kind of a no brainer, and obviously I want to be able to respond if I can understand what people are saying.
>you can do THAT just by turning off subs while watching anime
Maybe YOU can but that sounds like a horrible way to learn to me. Perhaps I'm just an idiot but all a lifetime of watching subbed anime has given me is a handful of phrases and vocab words, and trying to learn just from the context of things sounds terribly inefficient if you are shown no actual words to connect the sounds you're hearing to.

 No.27586

>>27585
>Also you learn to speak/understand intrinsically as you learn to read
no you really don't

 No.27587

>>27586
I didn't mean entirely but like, if you're reading and don't know a word, then you look up that word, you would learn how to say it and what it sounds like as well as what it looks like on paper.

 No.27589

But yes I know that speaking and listening practice are something I'll have to do eventually, I just worded my post bad, I'm sorry. I have no idea what I'm doing obviously and am just trying my best.

 No.27590

File: 66612595_p0.jpg (970.03 KB, 1000x967) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

practice by traveling to japan and speaking with cute girls

 No.27591

>>27590
I can't even do that in English

 No.27592

File: 75148558_p0.jpg (1.7 MB, 1240x1754) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

what's stopping you?

 No.27599

>>27592
Incurable social retardation and shyness.
Unless you mean going to Japan in which case it's that plus the fact that I'm poor.

 No.27600

File: 63795441_p0.jpg (1.54 MB, 1500x2000) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

you say incurable, but have you tried drinking a healing potion?

 No.27601

Motivation is at basically zero today, I'll be surprised if I get everything done. I'm once again unable to focus to on the tiny incremental progress in the face of what feels like a pointless and impossible goal for me.
>>27600
Is alcohol a healing potion?

 No.27602

it's a debuff more than anything

 No.27603

>>27601
also sit down and study you doofus
no excuses
the point isn't just to work when you have the motivation
determination means keeping at it even when you have negative motivation
and determination is what brings results

 No.27604

>>27601
also also once you skip one day
that makes skipping another day x100 times easier
so don't skip not even one day

 No.27605

Listening to raw Japanese when you don't anything besides stock anime phrases isn't helpful. Wait until you get better vocabulary before you try it.

>>27601
Studying doesn't need to be some kind of backbreaking grand order, but you have to make studying a routine. Even if it's just a little bit, as long as you regularly do it, it's fine.

 No.27611

>>27602
Well I'm not sure where to get a healing potion these days
>>27603
>>27604
Okay mom

 No.27613

Forced myself to get through everything just before bed. Frustrating how some words I am able to recall looking at them just on their own in anki but then when they come up in a sentence I am at a total loss aside from "I think I know that one?". Feels like my brain is broken or some shit. No kanji of the day today.

 No.27615

>>27547
>>27549
>>27563
>>27581
>>27601
>>27613
Why are you moving straight to vocabulary when you only have a couple kanji memorized and are still having trouble with katakana?

I was gonna use the neocities DJT site as authority since they're the lowest common denominator and I've actually been using the japanese grammar deck they recommend, but they preach moving straight to vocab after learning the kana and only learning kanji if you really want to. Are these people insane, malicious or am I the one who's been doing it wrong this whole time? Is the site owner american? They're the ones with the weird obsession with switching months with days when writing dates so it's possible their sense of buildup is messed up at a core level. Or maybe this method is backed up by prestigious and renowned linguists and neurologists? I know there's as many ways to learn japanese as there are kanji but the guide is written with such objective self-confidence in this one true method that I'm left doubting myself.

Anyway, let's pretend I didn't read any of that.

Kana makes words. Kanji makes sure you can contextualize these words. Jukugo is the use of kanji to make more words. One would naturally progress from kana to kanji to vocabulary. Yet here you are mixing it all together. PACE YOURSELF. Get done with the kana and keep learning one or two kanji a day if you really must (then torture yourself if you're still struggling with katakana when you get to 夕 and then think it's read as タ when it's actually ユウ - by the way, it seems the standard convention for writing kanji readings is katakana for on'yomi and hiragana for kun'yomi).

I suggest that once you know a hundred kanji, you pick the kanjidamage deck and do it from the very beginning. It's ordered the same way as the site so the first 100 kanji you get are those you already know, so you get to review what you know before adding more kanji to the grind (which at this point I'd suggest adding 5 new kanji a day, or none if your number of daily reviews goes beyond a number of cards you don't feel like you can comfortably get through in a day - I'd say 70).

 No.27628

>>27615
>Why are you moving straight to vocabulary when you only have a couple kanji memorized and are still having trouble with katakana?
Partly because vocabulary is the most engaging thing so far and partly because I was finding it hard to fill a whole 45 minute - 1 hour study session with just kanji and kana. I got the advice earlier in the thread to "not wait until I've finished one thing to start another" and so I figured jumping into vocab couldn't hurt. I understand the logic of studying kanji before vocab but it seems like it would take a lot longer to do it that way overall, and it seems like plenty of people have gone straight to vocab and been fine. And how many kanji am I supposed to know before I'm allowed to study vocab? Do I learn just the onyomi and kunyomi readings? What about all the jukugo that just don't care about the onyomi? I dunno but I feel like a lot of the specific advice I'm getting is pulling me in opposite directions. I will say this much, and that is that so far I haven't had any problems with feeling burnt out or stretched too thin, and I'm happy with my retention rate so far. Obviously this is all from a very small sample size and things could change a month from now or more and then I'll look at putting something on hold. But for now I'm happy and I'm confident I'm making some kind of steady progress so I really don't want to throw a wrench in things just because this might not be the "right" way.

 No.27629

>>27628
To speak a moment on kana I'm more or less 100% on both scripts, the thing I struggle with right now is recalling each character quickly enough that I don't feel like an idiot. When I do kana in Anki I try to reflexively answer with the first thing that pops into my head, and I'm getting better and better at it but there are a few ones that I still have to stop and actually think about, and that is my real trouble.

>I suggest that once you know a hundred kanji, you pick the kanjidamage deck and do it from the very beginning. It's ordered the same way as the site so the first 100 kanji you get are those you already know, so you get to review what you know before adding more kanji to the grind (which at this point I'd suggest adding 5 new kanji a day, or none if your number of daily reviews goes beyond a number of cards you don't feel like you can comfortably get through in a day - I'd say 70).

That deck has been my way of learning kanji from the start, actually. Right now I have it set to add 3 new kanji (6 cards) per day but I might ramp that up because compared to the 20 per day of vocab it really pales in comparison. I know I'm likely to get more warning of pacing myself but if anything I'm all too aware of my own mental state and if I feel myself getting burnt out I'm completely OK with taking a break from one avenue of study or tweaking the number of reviews or whatever.

Lastly I apologize if I sound overly defensive, I really don't mean it that way. I honestly appreciate any and all of these thought out posts and I refer to all of them not-infrequently. So thank you, and I will keep your words in mind when (not if) I start having trouble in the future.

 No.27630

Studying went well today. I'm finding the vocab study to actually be fun in a weird way.

 No.27637

Studying only kanji is also super boring anyway. Vocab has a more immediate reward.

 No.27641

File: 今日も一日がんばるぞい!.png (355.94 KB, 763x554) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.


 No.27643

What a shitty study session. Why am I being thrown 3 ways to say "shut" and 3 ways to say "open" at the same time?! Also it's hard not to despair when you look up a word and find out it's written 3 ways, but all 3 are pronounced the same and have similar but not identical meanings. I know it's far too early to let this stuff worry me and I should just focus on baby steps but I really hope this sort of thing becomes easier to grasp with time.
>>27641
thanks

 No.27670

It's odd how I find some words a lot easier to remember a few days after I have a lot of trouble with them, but then certain other words that were instantly easy a few days ago end up giving me renewed trouble.

 No.27671

The best way to do rote memorization is to go over something, and then 12 hours later (usually before/after bed) go over it AGAIN.
it's scientifically proven to be the best method. It like tells your brain: Hey brain, you know that thing you keep in the 'maybe temporary' memory department? Yeah, nah, that's actually needed long-term

 No.27707

Well I missed a day, but I'm all caught up now. The real win here, moreso than catching up, is not letting it get to me.

 No.27728

>>27707
That's the spirit.

 No.27770

File: 1477430226945.gif (1.14 MB, 500x281) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

I'm sad to say I've fallen off from doing individual kanji study and I think I'm gonna put it on hold. Doing it in concert with the vocab deck was making both of them harder to recall individually and I'm having a better time just spending an hour or so each day doing vocab and trying to read the sentences they give as examples. They are baby-tier sentences but it still feels nice when I am able to read one.

Speaking of, do you think it's too intense to try to include reading/deciphering the example sentence as part of the criteria for getting a card "right"? I suppose that sort of thing might be better saved for reading but part of me feels disappointed when I get the word itself right but screw up something easy in deciphering the sentence.

 No.27782

>>27770
>Speaking of, do you think it's too intense to try to include reading/deciphering the example sentence as part of the criteria for getting a card "right"?
You don't have to beat yourself up over it, but it's not a terrible idea. It would just mean more studying.

 No.27837

File: もうがんばらなくていいんだ.jpg (53.65 KB, 599x435) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.


 No.27845

File: 1526665367006.png (85.53 KB, 756x574) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

>>27837
No anon. Don't let her win!

 No.27862

>>27837
feeling like this right now

 No.27864

Only the losers on this site can turn a Japanese language thread into a blog thread where they baww about how big of losers they are.

 No.27865

>>27864
That's not limited to this site though.

 No.27866

>>27865
我々の失敗者は世界で最強!

 No.27867

>>27864
>>27865
今日の勉強は難しい
ごめんなさい

 No.27871

>>27866
正直、それはすごいですね

 No.27888

File: You can't learn japanese 8.png (981.27 KB, 856x3242) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.


 No.27910

I've never seen this "card is a leech, suspended" message in Anki before today. Is there a general consensus on what to do with them? I think they just sit in the suspended card folder until you manually re-add them. Why wouldn't I just add it right back in?

 No.27911

>>27910
You can change it in settings so it just marks it as a leech but keeps it in the pack.

 No.27912

>>27888
>I want to learn a lot of weird tough stupid and identical things
Seriously though why are there so many homophones? How does anybody know what they're saying to each other?

I know the answers to these questions are: a limited amount of syllables and context. But still, it's hard to wrap my head around.

 No.27914

Todays blog is that I had a lot of trouble with 待 and 持. Also just looking in this thread I am realizing how much harder it is for me to recognize kanji when they aren't plastered on my screen in a massive size and I'm worried that when it comes time to try reading I'll have trouble recognizing words I already know because of the font size or just a weird font in general. I still don't know enough words to do try doing anything other than just studying though.

 No.27919

>>27914
It gets better with time.

 No.28065

>>27914
Well for those particular ones, it's pretty trivial once you consider the radicals, no? They look similar but that's like saying door and boar look similar when written by hand - b looks like d, a is basically o with a tail. Looking at pieces of a character as inseparable wholes, but characters themselves as composed of those pieces, can help a lot.

 No.28068

File: 1526668202052.jpg (511.88 KB, 1024x1280) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

>>28065
Yeah those are easy. There's a few in this joke picture that look extremely similar to some common kanji but actually aren't. Whoever made this one was truly brilliant.

 No.28090

File: 早見沙織さん超早口アフレコがやばい!!『星野、目をつ….mp4 (5.19 MB, 1280x720) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

So in the end Yomichan was updated and solved the disappearing dictionaries problem, nice (not like I used it too much to begin with).

And I'm slowly getting my rhythm back but the brain drain is becoming real as I fell asleep watching anime yesterday. In any case I will try and ramp it up even more as I'm sure I can take it once I get back in shape which should be by the end of this week. Funny about icicle talking about getting used to excercise on that thread as I also feel my mental stamina is improving by the day.

 No.28157

>>28090
My big problem with Yomichan has always been how weirdly artificial it felt to mine words, especially if you read manga because it has trouble detecting kanji sometimes if it's not pure text. If you're on an actual Japanese website that's a different story entirely but the main Japanese site I go on is DLsite (which funnily enough provides a pretty healthy amount of practice simply due to the descriptions of the porn on it).

 No.28173

>>28157
Well it sort of feels like a crutch so I think it only shines when you're doing some lazy reading about something you might not be really invested in but need to get through the text fast due to curiosity or something.
And we know overdependence on crutches kills the learning speed so I can understand the whole artificial feeling to it.

And although manga would be a killer it feels like it's really powerful on sites like the itazuraneko library and that one syousetu site.

 No.28175

Don't worry with time you stop using yomichan a lot. I prettymuch only have it to occasionally add words to my anki deck.

 No.28179

Speaking of anki decks
https://www.japanese.io/
This site is pretty much yomichan and a dictionary built into a bunch of reading sources, including recent news articles, old children's books, and more advanced books. It's even got JPT N ratings next to the articles and it can autoexport words you click on for dictionary use to anki. Pretty much a quickstart place as far as I can see once you're totally decent with kana.

 No.28188

File: DO YOUR REPS.webm (16.27 MB, 852x480) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.


 No.28195

>>28188
>anki is black technology
Heh, exploiting that scene from FMP works perfectly.

 No.28472

出切ない beat that.

 No.28475

Dear lingusts,
I have been using Anki2.0 for a while and those decks are pretty much as mature as they will ever be; (are you familiar with that special feeling when you fail a 2 year mature card ?). I want to make a new mining deck, which this time is going to be well structured so that it doesn't look like an embarrassing mess made by a drunken child. Is there any advantage to 'upgrading' to the latest version of Anki?

 No.28481

>>28475
>Is there any advantage to 'upgrading' to the latest version of Anki?
Kind of. The old Anki is on python 2 if I remember correctly which is deprecated. The newer Anki can use mpv for playing back audio which is probably nicer than using mplayer. Also it uses QT5 not QT4. How much these things matter depend on your OS/distro, but there's not a reason to hang around on the old version.

 No.28740

>>28475
>(are you familiar with that special feeling when you fail a 2 year mature card ?)
I haven't been using it for that long, but that sinking feeling of knowing that you just added multiple reviews of a card you should know to your daily work over the next few weeks made me put Anki shit on hiatus, and now I have thousands of reviews. It's pointless to even dig in to them now, because even if I made a heroic effort to finish off 500 in a day that would just mean I'd have to repeat a portion of that effort the next day, and they day after that, and the day after that.

 No.28745

>>28740
That's how learning a language is

 No.28771

>>28740
This is why we tell you to do your reps every single day.

 No.28806

File: deki.png (306.04 KB, 604x445) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

I was about to take the J-CAT today since it's becoming a paid service in 2 weeks but forgot it requires Flash and my browser doesn't detect the plugin, fuck. Guess it wasn't meant to be.

 No.28807

>>28806
It's 2020 and people still use fucking flash?

 No.28808

>>28807
flashes were regularly uploaded here for years

 No.28809

>>28808
But not in 2020.

 No.28810

>>28809
if people used something in 2019 its safe to assume they still use it

 No.28812

In the end Internet Explorer did the trick so now I'm waiting for my password, but it makes me nervous though, working through a test knowing it could crash at any moment is not fun.

>>28807
I would like to think they're revamping their system in addition to it being paid, I mean there is no way a browser will support that in 2021.
But yeah like anon said there are actually a couple of swf files on sama right now, the most recent one was >>28030 I think.

 No.28814

>>28806
Can anyone do it? Do you have to register? Post link

 No.28815

>>28814
Yeah, it's free after all (for now) and it tests all levels of knowledge, whatever that means.

http://www.j-cat.org/en/

Needs registration and a mail, but it's not like they force you to use your real name or anything so go with whatever makes you more comfortable I guess.

 No.28827

>>28806
>it's becoming a paid service in 2 weeks
Fucking why?

 No.28862

>>28827
It seems it was indeed to move away from Flash and the new site is launching on April 1st, or more like the site already exists but will accept applications from that date onwards. So they're most likely taking the opportunity to also charge for the service with their revamped site.

Today I also got a mail from another site saying they're also moving sites due to Flash and to thank for all the support so it does feel like the end of an era.

 No.28866

>>28862
I suppose so
In some sense this sort of stuff happens all the time like Windows finally dropping the Internet Explorer brand or killing off Paint, but then Flash is a backend so it going the way of the dodo disrupts things you might've not expected I guess.

What replaced Flash anyway? I'm not big into the nitty gritty computer stuff.

 No.28903

>>28866
>What replaced Flash anyway? I'm not big into the nitty gritty computer stuff.
Bloated and buggy javascript frameworks so the web didn't really improve.

 No.28905

>>28903
Isn't Javascript just as prone to security issues as Flash?

 No.28920

>>28905
Flash probably is worse for security, but yeah javascript is a shitfest too.

 No.28949

File: J-CAT.png (150.22 KB, 1135x1128) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

Well finally took the time for this, missed 2-3 questions to the clock, mostly grammar ones I think which felt short on available time but in the end don't know if they would have added to the score or substracted points.
Now with this over I can properly say my goodbyes to the J-CAT test.

 No.28955

>>28949
Oh wow, that's actually pretty good
Have you taken JPLT?

 No.28994

File: Korbo.gif (65.73 KB, 469x385) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

>>28955
t-thanks
>Have you taken JPLT?
Yes, I have to wonder if I would make it in time for the N1 this year. Assuming corona doesn't kill those tests too, or me.

Also I'm really upset because grammar should be one of my strongest assets and it's my pride and it ended up being almost the lowest score lol

But the most important thing is that after taking the test it sparked my desire to learn even more so I encourage everyone who cares just a tiny bit about learning to take it, just for that alone and before it becomes paid (not like it's necessary to post results here or anything after all).

 No.28995

I let my studying get away from me and stopped posting out of shame but seeing you guys talk about it inspired me to try once again. I feel like crap because I keep letting my emotions get in the way of my learning, but on the bright side each time I "give up" and then start again I last longer and longer without having a giving up episode so hopefully third time's the charm.

 No.28996

File: James McCloud - Trust Your….mp4 (133.63 KB, 320x240) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.


 No.29000

>>28995
Just stick to a schedule and learn to read stuff.
Also if you have the time may I recommend physically writing out the flash cards that you don't know (preferably with a fountain pen for style points but pencil or pen will do)? Writing things out is a pretty good way to reinforce knowledge and can help to provide a visible reflection of your progress. Get a homework notebook and just write out definitions and pronunciations or whatnot on lines and see if it helps you out. Once you have the basics down I still recommend japanese.io, it has a bunch of really basic reading snippets you can use to read Japanese in a more applied manner than going through the entire N1 kanji list.

 No.29111

File: jcat.png (141.35 KB, 726x765) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

I tried it out!
Didn't realize the grammar questions only had a 30 second limit, that was a bit of a killer.

 No.29115

How many more days until the test site closes?

 No.29116

>>29111
Right? it feels like the time is too limited on that section and it might throw you off at first.

>>29115
until april 1st most likely

 No.29186

I read (with embarrassingly great difficulty) the first few pages of yotsuba. I think I need to wait awhile before I try reading again though. I feel like crap saying this but for whatever reason it's really strenuous on my mental state and I nearly had a panic attack doing it.

 No.29583

File: 1454094797413.png (24.1 KB, 240x240) Thumbnail displayed, click image for full size.

Starting from the ground up again really sucks. I could be so much farther than I am not but instead I'm learning numbers and days of the week again. And to top it all off I'm literally incapable of not comparing myself to others in anything I do. I know some people will tell me to try to jump back in where I left off but I tried that and the amount I had forgotten was too monumental and hurt my motivation too much. I feel like there's something wrong with my head that won't let me learn/remember things.

 No.29590

Mate if it's been 7 days since you last read anything, of course you forgot stuff. You should just try to read a little every day.

 No.29592

More like I had a month or so where I didn't study or read at all. I'm still not confident enough to try reading, my vocabulary is too bad. I know I'll get mocked for it but I do enjoy the memorization aspect of just studying vocab in a weird way.

 No.29596

>>29592
>I'm still not confident enough to try reading, my vocabulary is too bad.
This is your problem. If you can read kana and have at least a super duper vague idea how Japanese sentence structures work (i.e. you read what the は particle is once somewhere), then you are ready to read. Also, you need to make it a routine. Even if you feel like shit, just try reading something anyway.

 No.29600

>>29596
It's really a just a mental block, trying to actually read instead of recognize isolated words or sentences just stresses me out and in bad cases just fills me full of negative thinking and panic. The vocab cards I study have example sentences that I always do my best to read to myself but that doesn't really count I guess. If it really is that important I'll try to find some way to read something, even if it's just 1 page of manga.

 No.29603

>>29600
Different anon here, I'm pretty similar to you but I've found just reading the headlines on the NHK Easy news site every day for months has slowly helped and I'm finally starting to feel confident enough to try small doujin/manga. It's a good way to ease yourself into it as you've only got one or two sentences to read and there's usually a decent variety of content. (though Corona's everywhere right now)

 No.29606

>>29603
>NHK Easy news site
This is a good resource, thank you. Having the furigana is really convenient.



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